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PostPosted: Mon Dec 8, 2003 2:20 PM 
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Location: Speedway, IN
My iBook has begun to act very strangely. It was working just fine earlier today before I installed the 12-05-03 Security Patch for Jaguar. Now, when I press the iBook's volume buttons, or select -anything- from the Apple menu, it goes to a blue screen and restarts everything as if you had typed "kill -9 -1" from the terminal. Speaking of the terminal, it won't open either. Well, it does open, but its a window so small you can only see the red close button.

I have no clue whats going on, but as I said, it was working just fine before the security update ran. Now its acting bonkers. :(

Any ideas?

RL

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 8, 2003 2:44 PM 
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Huh. I ran Cocktail, thinking maybe some permissions had gotten out of whack, and things are working normally again. That was very odd. I'm still wondering what happened...

RL

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 9, 2003 10:23 PM 
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On the opposite end of the spectrum, I was having some weird screen flickering on my G4 Powerbook 17, and my clock would occasionally reset to 1969 on powerup.....now since the patch, it seems to have stopped....weird!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:20 AM 
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My problem now is Safari won't start up. It bounces a couple times but then it stops and nothing happens. I wish I knew exactly what that security update did, its causing me alot of trouble. :(

RL

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:33 AM 
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Ricky:

Have you tried repairing the permissions using the Jaguar install cd? Boot from the cd by holding down "c", then go to the file menu in the installer and select disk utility. Then select your startup drive and repair permissions. This may help.

I would also try deleting "com.apple.safari.plist" from your home-->Library-->Preferences folder.

Good luck,

Andy


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:24 PM 
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Yeah, I tried removing the prefs file first, Safari opened, and immediately "unexpectedly quit" So I put the prefs back, logged out, logged in as another user I have set up, and Safari appeared to work normally. I am currently checking the permissions with Disk Utility, actually. If that doesn't work I may just switch to another user for a while and see how many of my problems go away.

Begin Edit
Repairing of the permissions did not seem to fix Safari's problem, but since it is apparently something local to one account, then I guess I can begin pulling stuff out and see whats conflicting with it, if anything. Oh well.
End Edit

Thanks! :hmm:

RL

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:44 AM 
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Ack, another double post! Alright, so I removed the preferences file originally and Safari crashed right after starting up. So this time I removed the preferences, wiped out the cookies, and did some other fancy junk with Cocktail, and suddenly Safari starts! And I was just getting used to Firebird, too.
:P

RL

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:04 PM 
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And I was just getting used to Firebird, too.


Ricky,

Since you're running Jaguar, I'd run Firebird instead of Safari. Until Apple shows me that they're going to continue to support Safari on Jaguar (I'm really hoping for a Safari 1.2 announcement at Macworld that runs on 10.2 and 10.3), Firebird is the better 10.2 browser. Too many things are broken in Safari 1.0, in my opinion.


Bob C


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:48 AM 
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Firebird is lacking things I like too, though.. So, either way, IE looks better, sadly. Safari is nice and small but Apple's approach on leaving people behind who don't or can't upgrade is really an annoyance.

RL

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:00 PM 
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Quote:
Firebird is lacking things I like too, though..


Ricky,

I'm just wondering what those items are. I know that Firebird's not a finished product, but I can't think of anything that IE does better. The main thing missing for me is that I can't get Firebird to open up my MacReporter URLs in different tabs instead of different windows. At this point, Firebird seems to be ignoring the Internet preference setting of "Open Links from Applications in current window".

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Safari is nice and small but Apple's approach on leaving people behind who don't or can't upgrade is really an annoyance.


Unfortunately, that's one way Apple makes money. There's a reason why the Apple store is in the Fashion Mall and not Lafayette Square. Apple seems to be looking at a demographic that is able to spend $129/year on OS upgrades.

If Apple wants to get web designers to support Safari, though, they're going to have to make an exception for it and continue 10.2 development. A website isn't going to want to support the quirks of both Safari 1.0 and 1.1. They're most likely to say "Why should we bother at all for 3% of the market?" and just worry about IE/Win. Apple's only other hope is to try to emulate most (if not all) of IE/Win quirks. I just don't think that's going to happen. Therefore, for those websites that really want to be available to all, Apple needs to make it as easy as possible to do.

I'm still expecting some Macworld announcement regarding Safari. Based on Dave Hyatt's (Safari developer) weblog, I'd be shocked if there wasn't a Safari 1.2 announcement. The real news for me will be if Jaguar support is included. I understand why 10.1 support isn't viable. There were too many structural changes to make 10.1 support worth it.


Bob C


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:41 PM 
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Bob Carpenter wrote:
I'm just wondering what those items are. I know that Firebird's not a finished product, but I can't think of anything that IE does better.


Well, there are three I can remember at the moment. The main one was I was lacking a right side scroll bar and arrows. A shadow appears where they should be when the mouse is over the area. I'm not sure if this is an intentional feature or a conflict with something else I have installed, but it was very difficult for me to use it like that.

The second is a feature Safari also does not do. When I am using IE, and I have a form page with a drop down menu to select from (such as selecting your state) I can tab between text entry fields just fine but with IE I can also tab onto the drop down menu and type in the first few letters of what I want and it selects it. For instance, I type "in" and Indiana appears, and I tab on down to whatever else is next. I can also use the up and down arrow to move up and down in the list. Hitting tab in Safari and Firebird only goes to text entry fields. With a laptop, I prefer using the keyboard as much as possible.

The third was a minor, trivial thing that wasn't a big deal but I felt like bugging my friend who's on the Firebird support staff about it. There is no way to set a button to change the text size on a web page. Sure, there's a menu option, but I like having a button. :P

There were also some other things like the way it handles downloads and a little problem with bookmarks, but I am told those two are being addressed in 0.8 which was due to be out before New Years, but apparently that has been pushed back to about January 5th or so. I will, of course, try the new one out and see what changed.


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There's a reason why the Apple store is in the Fashion Mall and not Lafayette Square.


Yeah, I could actually get there alot easier if it was there, but I don't see it being a very crowded place other than perhaps to hang out in.

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If Apple wants to get web designers to support Safari, though, they're going to have to make an exception for it and continue 10.2 development.


I've been telling my Firebird loving friend this alot lately. He has never used Safari but says it would be ashame if people stopped supporting it over something like that. He then proceeded to tell me to use Firebird if I did quit using Safari. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:11 AM 
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Quote:
Well, there are three I can remember at the moment. The main one was I was lacking a right side scroll bar and arrows.


I assume by your message that you tried Firebird 0.7.1. Your Firebird-loving friend should've directed you to the nightly builds. I'm running a nightly build from about a week ago. I have the right side scroll bar and arrows. I think your complaint is the reason I didn't use 0.7.1 very much.

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The second is a feature Safari also does not do. When I am using IE, and I have a form page with a drop down menu to select from (such as selecting your state) I can tab between text entry fields just fine but with IE I can also tab onto the drop down menu and type in the first few letters of what I want and it selects it.


It's still the case that you can't get to a drop-down in either Safari or Firebird by using the Tab key. However, once you're on the field by using the mouse, you can use the arrow keys to move up and down. Also, you can hit the first letter of the field to find that item. Both Firebird and Safari seem to work on IE/Win in this case. For example, you keep hitting "I" until Indiana shows up. At least on the one form I tried, Firebird's keyboard access seemed to make more sense than Safari 1.1's.

I agree with using the keyboard as much as possible on a laptop. However, I've gotten pretty good with the trackpad. The thing that irritated me the most about IE is the "disappearing text" problem. Even at the end, I still had occasional pages where the text didn't appear. Also, it was SO slow.


Bob C


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:03 PM 
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Quote:
Your Firebird-loving friend should've directed you to the nightly builds.


Yeah, I've been using 0.71. He mentioned the nightly builds but I didn't feel like messing with downloading every day. (Though I know you don't have to...) But it sounds like if they already fixed that little problem that it should be fixed when 0.8 comes out.

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