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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:23 AM 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:27 PM
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Location: Indianapolis
Well, believe it or not, I managed to get into the 21st c. with an iMac running 10.5+--at home--however, my question is another trip down memory lane for someone--My StarMax 3000 upgraded to a G3 seems to have died, (know anyone who will take time to work on vintage Macs?). Since I have large and expensive periphs to keep going (36" scanner and 36"plotter)--hence the need for this vintage stuff. So I moved the two hard drives to a blue and white G3 (gawd how I miss the six clone PCI slots already)--and it won't recognize either hard disk--it's that lil' file folder icon flashing between the Mac logo and a big "?." When I start up on Norton's Utilities--told you it is a trip down memory lane--both harddrives and all their partitions appear on the screen and are recognized by Norton's Disk Doctor. All seem to be healthy enough according to Norton's, but when I restart on any one of the partitions--or either hard drive--(there's a choice of OS 7.6, 8.6 or 9.1) the damned computer refuses to recognize any one of the above. All is there for Norton's, but not without Norton's. What's up? Help! (please)
thanks
d'l


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:28 PM 
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Dan,

Hopefully, someone with Classic OS experience like Bob van Lier or Mark Kippert will see your question. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions.


Bob C


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 Post subject: Disks
PostPosted: Wed Jul 8, 2009 5:37 PM 
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Perhaps it is that none or both disks are "blessed"? Can you get to the StartUp Disk control panel and select one?

How is the scanner connected? Have you tried to drive it using VueScan? It may provide a path to move away from this antiquated equipment.


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 Post subject: Thanks!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:32 AM 
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I've "blessed" both disks and each partition to no avail. I finally put the old hard drive back in and connected one of the ones I wanted to put in and it will recognize the other drive. However, the original drive is not as big as the ones I want in the (blue and white G3, incidently--in case I've not mentioned that). Is there a ribbon cable to connect 3 drives together--there's another power plug hanging in there, but no way to connect the 3rd drive that I can see.

Thanks---
and oh yeah,what old equipment might you still have hanging around?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:00 AM 
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I believe you're restricted to only 2 drives since the Blue and White G3 uses ATA-33 so you can have a master and slave drive. So unless you have a PCI card that can connect the other drive, you're out of luck. Also the ATA-33 is capped at 128 Gb per drive.


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 Post subject: Thanks!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:01 PM 
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gads, I do have a lot of restrictions! Ah well, so it goes.
thanks,
d'l


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 6, 2014 4:51 PM 
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This post is being contributed on behalf of Jack Countryman:

When Apple allowed other companies to make Mac clones, one of the hard and fast restrictions was that they could not use Apple's proprietary drive formatting/partitioning software. So those computers all came with something other than Apple's Drive Setup software...often FWB Hard Disk/CDRom Toolkit, or LaCie Silverlining. Those put a non-Apple driver on the disk, that is recognized by most, but not all, software and allowed the machine to boot Mac OS.

So, to set up a new drive for one of those machines, you need one of those softwares to set up the drive. Once its setup with one of those softwares, then you should be good to go. I find FWB software on my shelf here behind me (possibly left from when I had one of the Power Computing machines years ago...as I am pretty sure that's what it used) and used to have other such programs saved on one of the old hard drives or zip disks here somewhere. I'd have to hunt a bit to find the others.

I no longer have any machines with six PCI card slots (used to have a 9600/200 and then a 9650/350 some years ago) so I can't help with adding slots. There was at one time, a hardware device with its own slots that then hooked to the computer to add slots...but it was very expensive and didn't catch on...I forget what it was called...and believe it was the old style (Nubus) slots in any case so it would not work with any current cards.

I suggest you check your old (working) drives for that machine to see if you can tell what driver/partitioning scheme they have. Then you would know of one setup that works with that machine and perhaps be able to set up a new one that way. FWB and Silverlining used to flash their logo or name in a corner of the screen as they booted up...not sure others gave any warning? 'Get Info' on the drive might tell something? Another possible tactic would be to use one of the drive cloning softwares, and clone the old drive onto the new one. Hopefully that would copy/install the driver/partitioning needed...though perhaps it would partition for the size of the old drive and leave the rest of the drive space empty? Best to find the needed software and do it right the first time if possible. Does your working drive have a copy of the drive partitioning software in its 'utilities' or 'applications' folder? If so, can you use that to set up the new drive? Or do you still have the disks/cds that came with that machine? There should have been a copy of whatever software they used in that set.

If you get desperate, I do tinker with older Macs from time to time...often to solve problems for friends rather than as any sort of commercial thing. Contact me when you get to that point and we'll see. Or if you were coming Wednesday evening, we might talk more about it then, or I could pick up stuff from you to tinker with. Your call.

Usual cautions apply...make a copy, and work on the copy first. Only do destructive things to the original drive when you are SURE you know what you are doing, etc. Caveat Emptor.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:41 AM 
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The first blue & white model, had (as earlier commented by VanLier) only one bus, so only two devices. Usually that was one hard drive as master and one cd-rom as slave. Later models with a different ROM had two data busses, allowing two devices on each bus. So on those you could have the hard drive as master on one bus, and the cd-rom as master on a second bus, leaving two slave positions for additional drives.

So, with the blue&white, it may partially depend on which rom version the machine had. There was a way to get the machine to tell you which one it was...in about this mac, or some such place...but the easy way was to look inside the case and see if there was one or two data ribbon cables for the devices and how many ports on the motherboard for the cables to attach into. If only one, it was the earliest version...if two, you had the later one that allowed more expansion.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:47 AM 
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It occurred to me after the last post that there may be an additional issue. That is the size of the 'new' drive vs. the size of drive the 'old' machine will use. Many of the machines of that day were limited to 128 megabyte drive volumes. That meant that any additional space on a drive didn't get used, but was simply unformatted/unpartitioned and effectively wasted space.

There was a possible work-around, if you had one of the newer machines to use to set up the larger hard drive. The work around was to partition the drive into multiple volumes of 128 meg or smaller in size. Note that there may also be a limit to the number of partitions the machine will 'see' and use. I don't recall reading anything that told the size of the new drive he wanted to use, so am not sure how many partitions would be needed?

So, it may be best to do the drive setup/format/partitioning on a slightly newer machine, using the FWB software, make sure each partition is 128 meg or smaller, then move the drive back to the Power Computing machine after its all set up.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:27 PM 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:27 PM
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Location: Indianapolis
Ea gags, Jack,
I couldn't believe you found that post after so long--I must still have the computer and the problem after all these years, but I no longer have any notion now of what I was talking about then--it's been too long, and besides right now I probably couldn't couldn't get to it if I wanted to. First I have to get my house that has been turned into a warehouse--I no longer live there, thank God, but am in the process of trying to get things sorted out to (I hope) sell off enough to get the scanner and plotter set up again--don't hold your breath! Thanks for the info--it may never be needed, but I still have some hope . . .
Thanks again,
d'l


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